Amanda Simpson | Net-zero carbon aviation by 2050

Commercial aviation has been identified as a contributor of greenhouse emissions, and is perhaps one of the most difficult industries to decarbonize--but there is a plan! Amanda Simpson, Vice President of Airbus Americas for Research and Technology and Head of Sustainability, talks about the options and opportunities within the aviation industry which will help achieve the goal of net-zero carbon aviation by 2050. Listeners will gain insight into the technological challenges, development timelines, and infrastructure impacts of potential solutions that will influence the aerospace industry.  

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Transcript

[00:00:00.00] [Gentle Music]

[00:00:06.73] Karen Baert: Dear listeners, welcome to this week's episode of The Hydrogen Innovators. It's a podcast series produced by the Stanford Hydrogen Initiative, spotlighting bold innovators in hydrogen, all the way from academia to industry. You can find our podcast series Hydrogen Innovators on Spotify and Apple Podcast. I'm Karen Baert, recent Stanford MBA graduate, entrepreneur and innovation strategist at The Initiative, and I'm thrilled to be your host for this week's podcast.

[00:00:34.95] Today, we have the privilege to welcome Amanda Simpson is an American pilot, businesswoman, and politician. I want to pause there, because that's pretty impressive. Let's repeat that. An American pilot, businesswoman, and politician. Amanda, thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the Stanford campus today. We are really, really excited for the conversation.

[00:00:58.47] Amanda Simpson: Well, thank you for inviting me. It's absolutely my pleasure. Pleasure to be here today and quite an opportunity to participate in your podcast. So thank you.

[00:01:07.70] Karen Baert: Amanda is a physicist and she later also got an MBA. She got her pilot license when she was 20 years old. And today she's a very skilled pilot, having flown more than 60 different models. So I'm going to have to ask, what was your favorite model?

[00:01:23.39] Amanda Simpson: Oh well, I had the really unique opportunity as in my career, I got to head up the flight test department for Hughes missile systems, later Raytheon. So I got to fly a lot of interesting aircraft. That's why there's 60 on there. But I would say the one that I had the most fun with was the T-39 Sabreliner. It is a business jet that predates the Lear, and you could do most anything in that airplane.

[00:01:56.95] There was an episode where I had some investigators in the back of the plane. We had some experiments on board. And we had a sensor that was looking-- mounted on the nose and it looked up, down, right, left. And they were complaining that they were getting jammed by someone on the ground. And I said, why do you think we're getting jammed? We're flying over a naval installation at the time. And they said oh, because we're seeing this elevated noise flow around the down channel.

[00:02:29.71] And I said oh, well, hang on a second. Do you still see the noise in the down channel, and they go, oh yeah, we do. And I said, well, but I just turned the airplane upside down. They didn't know. So when you do some of these things right, they have the windows covered because they're looking at screens and things. Yeah, that plane you could do all sorts of fun things.

[00:02:50.89] Karen Baert: Incredible. And you must be very skilled pilot. Fantastic. So Amanda, we'd love to talk today about obviously aviation, and the huge challenge of decarbonizing aviation. And then we'll talk about specifically, hydrogen's role in that. And then more specifically, how Airbus is looking at that challenge. And then lastly, we'd love to end with some more personal leadership journey questions.

[00:03:16.44] Amanda Simpson: That sounds like an interesting podcast. I'll have to tune in.

[00:03:19.89] Karen Baert: Great. So let's start with setting the stage on aviation and greenhouse gas emissions. So if you look at CO2 emissions, aviation represents between 2.5% and 3% of global greenhouse gases. If it were a country, it was the fifth largest emitter, right after Russia. And the story doesn't end here. Aviation is growing quickly and is forecasted to more than double, reaching to 2.6 times today's traffic in 2050. So a very large and increasingly large challenge.

[00:03:49.24] Now, the industry has been facing a lot of public and political pressure, and in 2021, there was a commitment to reach net zero emissions by 2050. Now, if we look at high level, the options to decarbonize aviation, at least from my understanding, there's three big ones. There's battery, battery electric, which only works for short range. Hydrogen, which is a challenge for long ranges as well, because of the low volumetric density. And then there's sustainable aviation fuels, which are, to my understanding, still way, way too costly today. How do you look at these options, am I missing options, and which ones will help us get there.

[00:04:31.97] Amanda Simpson: So there are challenges that are in aviation that are unique over other industries. We're seeing ground transportation decarbonize as we're looking at industrial systems decarbonizing, whether it's production of concrete and steel, which are the real big ones. There are solutions that you can do on the ground, but to try to take those up to 30,000 feet in the air makes it really difficult.

[00:04:59.20] And at the same time, when you have to insist on a level of maturity and safety that we've all come to expect, quite frankly, demand from the aviation industry, there's no cutting corners. So we need to make sure that the technologies that will get us to that decarbonization by 2050 are ready and mature before they're introduced into the market. That means very long development cycles. So yeah, 2050 seems far away, but it's really just around the corner when you start talking about the amount of time it's going to take to develop new products, get them into the field, and get them in enough of a quantity to start making an impact.

[00:05:43.45] So yeah, 2050 is a challenge. And there's a whole plethora of ways to get there. And at Airbus, we're looking at five main strategies. So the first one is to look at the airliners that are out in the field today. What does the fleet look like? And there's 40,000 airliners, approximately, in operation right now. And 85% of those airliners are more than five years old, which is kind of the big turning point in the airline industry where we started producing aircraft that were, what we at Airbus called the new engine option, which is the geared turbofan, and some of the other engine technologies that really cut the emissions by like 15% in one big swath.

[00:06:35.40] And the aircraft that we're building today are not only nothing like the ones that we built five years ago, even they look the same from the outside, but the aircraft today have half the emissions by passenger seat mile than 50 years ago. I mean, they're quieter, they don't put out the smoke, and they're much more efficient. So we've come a long way, but the next 50% is going to be really, really the tough part. So number one, start looking at how do you replace those older aircraft in the fleet with the newer aircraft that are coming off the line today.

[00:07:10.99] And between the big three companies that are producing aircraft airliners, that being Airbus, Boeing, and Embraer, you put those together and there's about 1,200 to 1,500 airliners a year coming off the line. So as you can imagine, A, it takes a long time to replace the fleet. And at the same time, the amount of air travel, like you said, is growing at about 3.5% per year and has been for the past 70 years. So it's not like there's an exponential rise, it's just been a very steady state rise, only interrupted by the few years of the pandemic. And we're just about back at 2019 levels, but we project that growth to continue. So that's number one, right. Replace the fleet.

[00:07:59.40] Number two is the use of those sustainable aviation fuels you talked about. SAF is going to reduce the amount of carbon being put in the atmosphere by recycling. By using biofuels today, which take carbon out of the atmosphere rather than taking carbon out of the geosphere, we can help recycle that. So that, we estimate, can probably reduce new carbon going into the atmosphere by something on the order of between 70% and 85%, depending upon how those biofuels are produced, transported, et cetera.

[00:08:42.56] But it's never going to get to zero. But it's going to be a big part of the solution, and yes, they are more expensive today because they are being produced in very small quantities. They are, if at best, pilot production plants. 2019, the largest year on record for consumption of aviation fuel, about 95 billion gallons of fuel was used worldwide. OK, that's a lot of fuel. Today, globally, there's five million out of 95 billion-- it's a very small contribution.

[00:09:23.50] So until that ramps up, the costs are going to be higher. Now the other issue is, it's just going to take a while for the energy industry itself to be able to produce that much SAF. And as we explore new ways to produce SAF, as the quantity goes up, the cost will come down. Cost is up now because supply and demand, low supply, big demand. Everybody wants it. Every drop of SAF projected to be produced in the next 10 years is already allocated. So trying to get that production up is going to be the big challenge. So SAF is number two.

[00:10:05.52] Karen Baert: Quick-- we'll click on that. So you mentioned biofuels within SAF. Are we also talking about electrofuels, and maybe for context for our listeners, where does hydrogen come in?

[00:10:16.51] Amanda Simpson: So, yes. So electrofuels, or sometimes called synthetic aviation fuels or power to liquid, is where you're actually taking hydrogen and carbon. Now that carbon can come from direct air carbon capture facilities, i.e. Pulling carbon out of the air. It could come from carbon that is being captured at industrial operations, in smokestacks or in other operations. It could be carbon coming from the production of hydrogen from petroleum.

[00:10:52.58] There's lots of ways to get carbon. So if you take hydrogen and you take carbon and you mash them together through wonderful things called science, you actually can create artificial hydrocarbons. And so you actually can create these synthetic fuels. Very tiny quantities of it today, mostly lab amounts, but there are some facilities that are under construction to produce them. They are expensive today, because the quantities are very, very small, and the chemistry behind it is very new, but that's also going to be growing.

[00:11:28.17] So you can figuratively and literally take the air and water and add electricity from presumably a green source, like solar wind or other, and create fuel, which I think is kind of the ultimate, right? Water and air, creating fuel. Ta-da. And yeah. So that's further down the line. It's decades away from full use, but it's in part of the path for those sustainable aviation fuels. So yeah, I mean, and that's probably going to be-- and the nice thing about these sustainable aviation fuels is they are what we call drop in fuels, that you can use them in the aircraft that are out there today without modification.

[00:12:21.99] Right now they're approved at a 50% blend, up to a 50% blend. So you can use 50% of SAF combined with traditional petroleum-based jet fuel. And that is then certified as jet fuel. Now, as you go above 50%, there's some issues that have to be resolved. Our goal, and I think the industry's goal, is that all new aircraft by 2030 are compatible with 100% sustainable aviation fuel. But there are some challenges.

[00:12:53.92] Interestingly enough, we saw this in the marine industry a decade ago when they started looking at biodiesels and bio marine fuels, is that they're so much cleaner than the petroleum based fuels that the impurities are missing. And oftentimes, those impurities are key to maintaining seals or other factors in the combustion of those fuels. So to make the switch to the more pure SAFs and biofuels actually will take some modification to the aircraft to get to those 100%, but they're minor. They're minor and can easily be retrofitted to aircraft.

[00:13:38.14] So that's going to be a big part of reaching that 100% goal, because you can back load it into the aircraft that are available today, and the aircraft that are going to be built for decades to come. The third, and I'll elaborate on this later, is the new technologies that we're developing today that we hope to incorporate into aircraft by the mid to late 30s. Oh, my gosh, why does it take so long? Because of all the things I talked about.

[00:14:05.58] And make sure that we're mature enough that when these technologies are incorporated into future products, that they're ready and they're safe, and that's going to take a dozen years at minimum. And that's why we're not going to see these products to the mid 30s. And trying to produce those in quantities so that they're out there by the 50s, by 2050 it's going to be small. But there's a lot of technology development, and hydrogen is one of those we'll get back to. So that's number three.

[00:14:33.08] The four is one that people don't often think about, and that's the operation of the aircraft themselves. It's things like looking at our air traffic management system to optimize it so that aircraft, after they start their engines at an airport, can go right to the end of the runway and take off without waiting in a long line for departure clearance, and that they can climb right up to the most efficient altitudes instead of leveling off at intermediate altitudes where the jet engines aren't as efficient.

[00:15:03.31] And the same thing on the arrival end, that they can descend right to the airport rather than doing-- rather than leveling off at inefficient altitudes, holding patterns, rerouting for traffic, and then be able to land and taxi to a gate without sitting there waiting for a gate to be open with your engines running, doing nothing more than putting greenhouse gases out and a lot of heat and noise. So that is, alone, probably around 10% of the solution right there.

[00:15:34.01] And so there we're adopting and adding options for our current aircraft that allow for minimum power descents from altitudes, an option that a pilot can select on an aircraft in cooperation with air traffic management. Options for single engine taxiing, so that they can safely taxi with one engine on, so that at least the second one isn't running. Ideas like automated electric tugs that would take the aircraft to and from the runway, so that the aircraft doesn't have to be using a jet engine to taxi.

[00:16:13.56] There's so many different ideas that are being pursued to help pursue the reduction on the operations side. Because if you don't have the engine running to begin with, well, then you can actually start reducing the amount of fuel you need, whether it's going to be petroleum based, SAF, or other fuels. And then the fifth is looking at offsets. And we certainly would like to have that be minimized. And one of the things that we're pursuing is investments in direct air carbon capture.

[00:16:48.66] And we will be opening a facility in Texas in a few years that will be removing one billion tons of carbon from the air every year and sequestering it back underground where the oil came from. We feel that that has to be part of the solution. And certainly when you're using SAF, that's only going to be 70% to 85% of the target of getting to zero. You have to do something to get rid of the rest. So that's where these other efforts will be coming in.

[00:17:23.04] So all five of those together, we can get to net zero by 2050, but it's not an easy solution. There's a lot that has to happen. And while I will talk about what Airbus is doing, this is not something that Airbus is going to do alone. It's not even something the entire aviation ecosystem can do alone. It is cooperation with the energy industry, its cooperation with ground transportation on technologies that they're developing.

[00:17:52.94] So it's a very, very big effort. It's just because aviation is so complicated, we're kind of late to the party. And if we don't do anything, that 2.5% to 3% we talked about today, as we continue to grow in aviation and those other sectors decarbonize, all of a sudden that 2.5, it becomes a bigger wedge on a smaller pie. And then we are really the problem, and we really want to be part of the solution.

[00:18:22.10] Karen Baert: Yeah. And that's a really good overview. And it's so-- because we hear a lot about change the fuel, but it's so interesting to hear that we need changes, significant changes in all these buckets, and that in each of these buckets, we need a village of different stakeholders in the aviation industry and beyond.

[00:18:39.71] Amanda Simpson: Well, and I mean, it's one thing to change the aircraft, but think of all the infrastructure that goes along to support an aircraft at an airport. The fuel stations, they have hydrants and fuel trucks and all these things. And so when I talk about well, you have to change a seal or you may have to do a different type of inspection because you have a bioproduct, this doesn't just apply to the aircraft. This is hundreds and hundreds of major airports around the world, to say nothing of the smaller aircraft that support the regional jets, the corporate aircraft, and on and on and on.

[00:19:13.49] This is a big, big thing that's going to take not the 17 or 20 or whatever years to get to net zero by 2050, but really is going to be an ongoing process for decades to come.

[00:19:26.74] Karen Baert: Absolutely. Let's talk about technology.

[00:19:30.05] Amanda Simpson: OK.

[00:19:30.40] Karen Baert: You're a technologist. We talked about the fact that SAF-- the good thing about SAF is that it's a drop in fuel. Now, if we talk about hydrogen, that's different, right?

[00:19:39.95] Amanda Simpson: Yeah.

[00:19:40.54] Karen Baert: One of the big challenges with hydrogen is that at ambient conditions, it takes up around 3,000 times more space compared to jet fuel.

[00:19:48.50] Amanda Simpson: Yeah, people need to think about that. 3,000 times the amount of volume for the same amount of energy.

[00:19:54.26] Karen Baert: So what do you think the potential is for hydrogen in aviation, and what does it take for us to get there?

[00:20:04.19] Amanda Simpson: Yeah. So I mean, that's the great thing about hydrogen-- per unit weight, it's very light. So per unit weight, it carries three times the amount of energy of a petroleum-based fuel, whether it's jet A or even gasoline. But the bad news is the volumetric side. So what's been done on the ground transportation is you compress. You compress that hydrogen gas. You can take it up to several thousand atmospheres and get it down to instead of 3,000 times the volume, you can get it down to six or eight times the volume by putting it in a high pressure cylinder.

[00:20:45.82] And that's what ground transportation is doing. What is it? 12, 13,000 hydrogen powered vehicles on the road here in California, more overseas. Japan is very big on it. There's a lot of work going on to hydrogen trucks for long range travel, but they're using compressed gas. But like I said, you're still-- now you have a heavy tank to be able to these thousands of PSI of pressure. So that's a problem with aviation. If you make something very heavy, you still have to carry it up into the sky.

[00:21:24.61] So to get it even more compressed, you liquefy it. And liquefied hydrogen gets to four times the volume per unit energy.

[00:21:36.10] Karen Baert: Better.

[00:21:36.54] Amanda Simpson: It's better. But now you have a different problem-- cryogenic hydrogen, liquid-- well, when you liquefy hydrogen, it becomes a cryogenic. It's super, super cold. And I mean, we're talking 20 Kelvin. We're talking of hundreds of degrees, 460 some odd degrees below zero Fahrenheit. I mean, this is really, really cold stuff. So A, you have to worry about-- you want to make sure it's safe in handling. So there's a lot of handling issues that need to be addressed in aviation.

[00:22:07.59] Good news. We've been dealing with liquid hydrogen here in the US for 50 years since the we started the space program. There's a lot of safety and understanding on how to deal with it. And even today in the US, we make over 10 million metric tons of liquid hydrogen and it's moved all over the country. We have 1,000 miles of hydrogen pipelines and it's very safe. So there's a lot of work that's already been done there.

[00:22:34.38] But the next issue is, you want to-- if you're going to put it in an aircraft, you want to keep it cold. You don't want it to boil off until you're going to use it. So now you have to have a very highly insulated tank. And again, it's that weight thing. You don't want a very heavy steel tank, heavily insulated, because of its weight. So there's a lot of research going on with regards to making lighter weight liquid hydrogen tanks that can hold that cryogenic liquid for longer periods of time without boil off, and do so in a very safe manner.

[00:23:14.65] So a lot of work going on there. But once you look at that and you say, so, the best way to reduce boil off in a tank is to reduce the contact from this cryogenic liquid and the surface of the tank. And so most efficient volumetric way to store is a sphere. And if you-- spheres don't fit well in airplanes today. Certainly not the way we store fuel today by filling up the wings with a liquid. So you're now looking at a different way of storing the fuel on a plane, in either a spherical or a think of a very roundish cylinder that you might actually build into the fuselage of the tank.

[00:24:00.31] So while there are some companies that are looking to develop hydrogen powered aircraft today, they're modifying existing aircraft by putting small spherical or cylindrical tanks into the aircraft and reducing their volume. So you've lost the ability to carry passengers or cargo and you're adding weight, and now you have an empty wing, because you're not carrying anything in it. So it's suboptimal, but it's going to be a way to get things moving forward.

[00:24:31.87] If our goal at Airbus is to do a clean sheet design of an aircraft centered around a hydrogen propulsion system, hydrogen storage and where to put that hydrogen in this large cylindrical tank, which will probably be-- we're looking at lots of different options because you can put it on a cupola up on top of the aircraft, make it look kind of interesting from the front. You can hang it in big pods under the wings, or you can make the plane a little bit longer and actually say, the back third of the aircraft be a tank.

[00:25:06.23] Good news is that as you burn the fuel off, the center of gravity doesn't change much because the fuel itself is light. It's the tank that's heavy. And so those are the concepts that we're looking at. And the others-- but there's benefits from that, too, because you're not putting fuel in the wings, now you optimize the wings for aerodynamics instead of being a flying fuel tank. So you get the added benefit of saying, how do we-- we think we can get probably a 10% to 15% bump on aerodynamics in the design of the wing without having to put a fuel tank.

[00:25:41.35] So all these things, as we start thinking about what a new aircraft would look like based on a hydrogen propulsion system, we start bringing in other technologies, other innovations that have happened over the decades. So that we have instead of a evolutionary design, it's an opportunity for a revolution in aircraft design and manufacturing, because manufacturing, we want to make sure that the aircraft itself, while we're building it, is environmentally sound.

[00:26:12.01] Karen Baert: And that newly designed hydrogen powered aircraft is the goal there to mainly cover regional flights, or do you think that could also have an impact on the long distance flights?

[00:26:23.00] Amanda Simpson: Well, I think what we're going to see is a family of aircraft that will probably start out with shorter range and smaller payloads. So our project, which we call 0E, we're targeting an aircraft between one and 200 passengers, that can go between one and 2000 nautical miles.

[00:26:43.88] Karen Baert: Interesting. So we talked about, it's so much more than just changing fuels. We need to redesign our aircrafts. And Airbus specifically is working on superconductors. Could you elaborate a little bit of that, and maybe more broadly specific new technologies that you and Airbus are excited about?

[00:27:01.71] Amanda Simpson: Yeah. I mean, so we talk about using hydrogen as a fuel for propulsion, and there's a couple of ways you can do that. We already talked about how you can use hydrogen in conjunction with carbon to create a synthetic fuel, that power to liquid. And so that's one. The next is one that you just burn hydrogen in a combustion engine, very similar to the ones we have today. And so we are working with various engine manufacturers, turbine engine manufacturers, to develop that technology.

[00:27:37.49] The good news is, most of the engine technology that's been developed over the past 60, 70 years since the introduction of the jet engine, is applicable to a hydrogen powered jet engine. All you're doing is changing the mixture between fuel and air in the combustion chamber. The compressor's pretty much the same. The turbine in the back, you have to make some adjustments because it burns at a different temperature, so you may have some different materials. But we're actually looking to do a demonstrator flying a hydrogen-powered turbine combustion engine on one of our platforms in the 2026 timeframe.

[00:28:25.63] Karen Baert: It's very, very promising to hear how Airbus is really at the forefront of aviation of so many different potential paths to decarbonizing aviation. Great. Want to quickly take a step back and think about-- so we talked about aviation industry. We've been improving fuel efficiency for a while, and significantly reduce emissions as a result of that. And at the same time, it's a high growth industry and it will keep growing going forward. When do you think we will see emissions go down in the industry, and as a technologist, how do you think about relying on new technologies to make that happen versus mitigating consumption by flying less?

[00:29:08.03] Amanda Simpson: And it's interesting, because we've seen different parts-- different countries around the world saying, well-- and particularly France, which is interesting, because that's where our headquarters are that says, any flight under 2.5 hours by train has to be replaced by train. Now they've made exceptions. If you're using that flight to connect to another flight that is then going to take another period of time, well, then you can still fly.

[00:29:37.24] But the concept is, for short range, how do we rely on other methods that are maybe already decarbonised? Because quite frankly, in Europe, they have a wonderful high speed rail system that is electric, that is getting its energy from green or turquoise sources, for those who track color, which maybe doesn't matter much. But the concept that there will be less flying, I don't see that actually ever happening.

[00:30:10.65] If you think about the reliance of our society on air transportation-- and it's more than the ability for people to go on vacation and see their loved ones wherever they are around the world, because it is moving people, but it's also moving goods and cargo. It's connecting businesses, and ideas, and our way that we become one planet and understand cultures and differences. And aviation has become so critical, not only to our economic prosperity, but just to our society in general, that I expect it will continue to grow.

[00:30:52.77] And it would be wrong for the developed countries to put limits on growth that would impact the developing countries, which are now just gaining access to widespread aviation. So I don't see the amount of travel ever decreasing. But as the synthetic fuels come on board, as new technologies in the next several decades come on board, that curve will start bending so that the amount of emissions from year to year will actually start decreasing. That's probably still a few years away. Why? Because the amount of sustainable aviation fuel right now is less than 1/10 of a percent.

[00:31:36.31] Karen Baert: Amanda, this has been so both informative and energizing so far. We're getting to the end of the podcast, and I'd love to end with a two more personal questions, talking about leadership and your leadership journey, specifically. You are a skilled pilot, very skilled pilot. You are a technologist, you are a manager, and you're also a transgender woman. You transitioned in 1999, if I'm correct, in a small city in Arizona.

[00:32:06.28] You've had the courage to be very open about the transition, really paving the path for many others who came and will come behind you. And one of the things that really stands out to me, as I was reading up about your background in preparation for this interview, is how you, while being a true advocate for increased diversity and inclusion, specifically in engineering environments, you keep focusing on doing your job incredibly well, letting the output of the work speak for itself. And I personally think that makes the advocacy even more powerful. Are you open to sharing more about how these values and experiences shaped you into the leader you are today?

[00:32:45.27] Amanda Simpson: Yes, I am. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting premise. I've always felt that I should not be particularly given an advantage because of my background. But I should be able to advance in my career because of my ability to do my job really, really well. Has it made opportunities available to me? Probably. But at the same time, I then was able to show that I was up to the job, and quite frankly, at times, excel at those jobs.

[00:33:31.27] As you said, I am a politician. I really don't think of myself as such, even though I did run for office back in 2004, in that small area of Arizona and won the primary, but didn't win the general election, but it did open some doors. And so in 2009, I received an appointment from the Obama administration to work in the Department of Commerce as senior technical advisor. And I think it was my experience and demonstrated capabilities that over the course of the eight years of that administration, I moved to successive leadership positions, eventually becoming the Deputy Assistant Secretary of defense, overseeing all energy operations for the department on a global scale.

[00:34:23.08] And that wasn't because I was a trans woman, but because I had been given the opportunity to demonstrate my capabilities-- not my potential, my actual demonstrated capabilities. And I think that was important for people to see, as a role model, that however you view it, it's not a disability, it's not an impediment for me, or for anyone, or shouldn't be, to get the job done. And that's part of the mantra that I've lived by in the 25 years since I came out, and I am who I am.

[00:35:08.35] I'm not going to not be who I am or try to be someone I'm not. And I always thought that that was important, and will continue to do so. Hopefully that addresses what you're asking for.

[00:35:23.55] Karen Baert: I think that's a very powerful message, and I'm sure that inspires many of our listeners as well. So thank you so much for sharing that, an empowering leader.

[00:35:33.89] Amanda Simpson: I think that's an important thing to be.

[00:35:35.96] Karen Baert: And then I'd like to end with a question that we ask every guest in our podcast. And I have this strong belief that we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us. To use Isaac Newton's words, it's standing on their shoulders that makes us see further. In that context, who inspires you and why?

[00:35:54.65] Amanda Simpson: So I'm going to tell you a little story about a woman named Iris Critchell. Iris was my flight instructor back in-- a long time ago. And Iris has an amazing history. Iris, when in high school, was a swimmer. And she was-- went to the US championships in 1936 and was the US champion and held the world's record for the breaststroke, for women's 100 meter breaststroke.

[00:36:31.01] And because of that, she got to try out and qualified for the Olympics in 1936 and competed in Berlin, which is absolutely amazing. And then when she comes back, she finishes high school. And one of the things she was introduced to was aviation. She went to an air show at a small place called Mines Field, one square mile dirt field. And she got so enamored by it that her father allowed her to learn to fly.

[00:37:02.81] Now we're talking 1930s, and we're talking biplanes, and well, Mines Field today is Los Angeles International Airport. So she graduates high school and gets accepted into the first aeronautics program at the University of Southern California. And she's the only woman in the class. Graduates in the summer of 1941. She ends up working for a company that helps write the procedures on how to train pilots for the CAA, which would later become the FAA.

[00:37:42.57] War breaks out a few months later, and she is one of the first women to volunteer for what was, at the time, the WAIFs-- the Women's Auxiliary Ferry Service, run by Nancy Love, which later combines with the group by Jackie Cochran and becomes the WASPs. And she was one of three women who was qualified to fly all the bombers, all the fighters, all the transport aircraft from World War II. Amazing woman. She taught me to fly. She's 102 and a half now. I get to see her once or twice a year. And she still is an amazing woman. And if there's anyone who motivates me and shows me how much is possible, what is overcoming the odds and fighting for what they are capable of doing, it's Iris Critchell. And I am honored to think of her not only as a mentor, but also a friend.

[00:38:46.04] Karen Baert: That is very powerful. Amanda, thank you so much for spending time with us today. It was a true joy to be inspired by you. We look forward to continuing to follow your progress at Airbus and beyond and fly towards the future together. Thank you so much.

[00:39:01.85] Amanda Simpson: My pleasure.

[00:39:02.90] [Gentle Music]