Ivana Jemelkova | Global Progress and the Shift from Ambition to Delivery
In this episode, we sit down with Ivana Jemelkova, Chief Executive Officer of the Hydrogen Council, to explore global hydrogen progress and what it really takes to turn vision into scale. Ivana shares insights from the Council’s new Global Hydrogen Compassreport, revealing over $110 billion in committed investments and 510 projects worldwide, and breaks down what’s driving momentum across China, North America, and Europe.We explore the essentials for growth demand, policy clarity, standardization, and infrastructure, and why, as Ivana puts it, “the energy transition will move at the speed of trust.”An inspiring conversation about how hydrogen is moving from ambition to delivery.
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This article is part of the series: Hydrogen Innovators Podcast
Transcript
[00:00:00.00] [MUSIC PLAYING]
[00:00:02.96] IVANA JEMELKOVA: This is an industry in the process of building up. There's bound to be good news. There's bound to be bad news. But the industry is moving, and I think that is the fundamental truth that we just need to embrace. We need to be very practical in the next phase. It's not about big new ideas. It's about rolling up our sleeves and getting the work done.
[00:00:30.78] EMMA KERR: Welcome back to the Hydrogen Innovators Podcast, produced by the Stanford Hydrogen Initiative, where we spotlight bold leaders shaping the future of hydrogen across academia, industry and policy. I'm Emma Kerr, a PhD student at Stanford.
[00:00:46.60] MILANIA ROJAS: And I'm Milania Rojas, also a Stanford PhD student.
[00:00:50.80] KAREN: And I'm Karen [INAUDIBLE] co-host for today, an MBA graduate from Stanford and an entrepreneur in the hydrogen industry. Today we are incredibly thrilled to welcome Ivana Jemelkova. She's Chief Executive officer at the Hydrogen Council. The Council is a global CEO-led coalition comprising 140 leading businesses and investors in hydrogen from over 20 countries across the Americas, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Asia-Pacific. And Ivana will tell you much more about what the Hydrogen Council represents and what it's fighting for.
[00:01:29.90] Besides that, I've known Ivana for a while now, and she's been an incredibly inspiring leader in the hydrogen industry long before she took the position as CEO of the Hydrogen Council to her work at FTI Consulting. And she was also one of the co-founders and drivers of the Women in Hydrogen Association.
[00:01:50.22] SPEAKER: Thank you so much for having me, Karen and my Milania. You know very well I'm a fan of your podcast, so it's really a pleasure to be here with you today. And I'm really honored to contribute to it. Thank you.
[00:02:03.15] KAREN: And we're happy to have you here. All right, Ivana, let's get started. You began your career, I believe, in international relations and European policy before moving into energy consulting specifically, and now leading the Hydrogen Council. Tell us more about your journey and what shaped that journey to move towards the energy transition.
[00:02:25.31] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So, Karen, you're right. I've done a bit of a 360 around governments, businesses, nonprofits. And I think the main lesson I've taken from all of these experiences is around the understanding of everyone's unique perspectives. And let's be also honest, there are pressure points. So I'm really thrilled that I can bring that experience to the Hydrogen Council now and really contribute to building and scaling this industry.
[00:02:55.11] As you may get a sense from reading the news these days, it's not an easy job. There's a lot of emotion in it, too. And it's a hard work to scale. A new Energy Solution requires patience, persistence, and I would argue above all, collaboration of all the different stakeholders we mentioned before. So we're now in the middle of that journey and working to keep everybody focused, to keep building. And I'm delighted to report that we're not doing too bad. We're actually seeing lots of progress. And I'm sure we'll get to that in just a few minutes.
[00:03:31.85] KAREN: No, that's amazing. And also just a quick thing, like for listeners who may not know what is the Hydrogen Council and what role does it play, what role does it play in shaping the global hydrogen economy, can you explain a little bit more?
[00:03:44.85] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So the Hydrogen Council was founded at the World Economic Forum in Davos back in 2017. And it initially brought together 13 leading CEOs from energy, transport and industrial companies from all around the world. That quickly grew. Today, we are some 140 members, a really great, diverse group of big and small players, players from across the full value chain, across the full spectrum of production pathways in hydrogen. And I think 20-plus different countries, so really a very global group. And what brings the group together is that united vision for hydrogen. They believe in a clean, secure, and resilient energy future. And hydrogen as an important part of that solution.
[00:04:34.56] So the Hydrogen Council really plays a unique role in bringing together all of these movers and shakers in hydrogen through our research initiatives, through our advocacy, including towards some of the biggest multilateral government fora out there, and also our market activation initiatives. And all of those with a single goal to just keep moving hydrogen forward, keep building that industry.
[00:04:59.64] EMMA KERR: That's wonderful to hear, and it's really great that we have such a strong leader leading this initiative across so many different perspectives and countries and individuals. So I'm just curious with how many members that you have, over 140 roughly and across different industries and geographies, how do you align such a diverse coalition around common priorities and motivate them towards a common goal?
[00:05:27.88] IVANA JEMELKOVA: It's actually not that difficult. As I mentioned, the vision is very shared. And the opportunities and challenges that stem from it are shared too. As I mentioned, let me use an example here. As I mentioned, the Council represents the industry towards some of the key international, intergovernmental forums such as G20, cop climate conferences, the clean Energy Ministerial and what have you. And this is where we can really work hand in hand with governments.
[00:05:58.68] Now, I believe over 60 governments around the world have adopted hydrogen strategies. And we can now work with them to help them implement them, to help them translate them from paper to actual business practice. So there are so many lessons learned. And that experience sharing, that finding of common language, if you will, issues such as standardization, technical regulation. I know they may not sound like the most exciting things in the world, but they're fundamentally important to the success of the industry. Imagine we could just speak with one voice, how much time and money we could save in hydrogen?
[00:06:36.10] KAREN: Amazing. Ivana, let's talk about where we're at in the hydrogen industry and what the Hydrogen Council is doing to continue to move the industry in the right direction. I think it was actually a Hydrogen Council report from 2024 that kind of showed that there were 434 projects that reached FID, with around $75 billion of committed investments. And that was September 2024. So that's already very outdated, that's a year ago.
[00:07:07.23] IVANA JEMELKOVA: I do have an update for you, Karen. I have an update for you.
[00:07:10.19] KAREN: All right.
[00:07:11.11] IVANA JEMELKOVA: It's time to talk about what we're about to do tomorrow. So we're recording on September 8. And tomorrow, September 9, we're going live with our new report called "Global Hydrogen Compass," that is really trying to bring together something quite unique, not just the numbers as in the industry facts and figures on the pipeline, where we are in FIDS and all of that. But also we have this year incorporated a direct layer of insight from global CEOs. We interviewed and surveyed some 70 of them to really give us a flavor of what's happening. And we also incorporated lessons learned from some of the industry's key projects.
[00:07:52.83] So in the report, you will find 12 case studies, including reflections on what is it that is moving these projects forward. So let me give you a little preview, although by the time we go live, listeners will be able to go to compass.hydrogencouncil.com to read in full. But if I'm to summarize the three most important messages. We are even further than we were last year, now reaching 110 billion in committed investments around the world. That's in fact 35 billion more than last year.
[00:08:29.43] And what I personally find the most exciting is that we are now showing five years of steady growth. So over the last five years, since 2020, the industry has grown on average about 50% year on year when it comes to committed investment. And that to me is incredibly exciting because now we're seeing the patterns that we had witnessed earlier in other industries.
[00:08:53.77] Now we are now, I think you said 400 and something. So we added another 80 projects past FID since last year. So now I believe the number is 511, which again, I find incredibly exciting. Now let's also be very clear. And that's something that we tackle head on in the report. Not every announced project ultimately succeeds. Not every idea turns into physical construction, into operation.
[00:09:22.13] And we actually counted. We counted some 50 projects that have been publicly delayed or canceled over the last year. But I just want us to ponder the two numbers, let's say 50 bad news, 50 headlines about projects not moving forward and 500 projects past FID which are telling us that the strong viable projects are really motoring ahead. So the last message I will share from the report is that we looked at supply demand and how that all comes together. And the conclusion is very clear.
[00:09:57.40] Supply is lined up to scale. But really the key unlock, the key condition for success is demand. We're seeing some emerging clarity. Again, I'm sure we can get to it in further questions, but that is our next big test. That is our next big challenge.
[00:10:14.08] KAREN: Fantastic, Ivan, thank you for sharing these numbers. And that is indeed really exciting and fantastic news, especially given the downturn in the industry that so many people talk about. And we talk about this a lot on the podcast, a lot people often focus on the projects that get delayed or get canceled, but it's fantastic to see that there's actually more projects moving forward.
[00:10:36.00] IVANA JEMELKOVA: Karen, our job, if I may just jump in, our job is to tell those 500 good stories. So where are they? We need to write them. We need to show what is happening, what is moving, and why it is moving forward so that others may build on that success.
[00:10:52.38] KAREN: Absolutely. And with that, please allow me to ask you two quick follow up questions. One, so the $110 billion committed investment, is that all the investments that went into the projects that reached FID?
[00:11:05.86] IVANA JEMELKOVA: FID plus. so FID in construction or in operation. So we're really looking at the mature part of the pipeline. You know that we look at the pipeline overall. There are some 1,700 projects that have been announced over the last years. And again, some of them are in very early stage. Some of them are going through design, feasibility, engineering, I mean, really different stages of maturity.
[00:11:32.38] And what we're most excited about is to see how that pipeline matures, how it moves to the FID plus stage, because that's where we're talking about firm commitments. That's where we were talking about real sort of capacity that's coming up.
[00:11:47.95] KAREN: Great. And then the 511 projects that are in FID or FID plus, is it correct that they all have offtake secured?
[00:11:57.75] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So that's another piece of information that we often read in the media, that out of the global pipeline, only a fraction have secured offtake. Now, if we look at the FID plus pipeline and the situation is much better. I think we're looking at some 2/3 of those projects having secured offtake and the others are working on it. Obviously, that's a key component of their success. That brings us back to the emerging clarity.
[00:12:24.71] Across the world, we have a number of key pieces of legislation that have the power to unleash the demand, the offtake requirements we need. But some of them have only just recently been clarified, stabilized, if you will, we hope. And some of them are going through the process as we speak. So that is the big area for attention. This is where we're all watching.
[00:12:48.65] KAREN: Amazing. And then last follow up question, for the 50 projects that have been delayed, I do think it's also important to talk about them and talk about what we can learn from them. Is there anything you can share in terms of learnings on why projects get delayed and what we in the industry can do to prevent that happening in the future?
[00:13:08.69] IVANA JEMELKOVA: That's such a great question, Karen, and I'm so glad that you ask, because we should be able to talk about the realities of the industry. And that means the good news, as well as the bad news and the lessons learned without drama, without going from hype to doom and gloom. The reality is that this is an industry in the process of building up that's bound to be good news. There's bound to be bad news. But the industry is moving. And I think that is the fundamental truth that we just need to embrace.
[00:13:36.45] So when we look at those canceled projects, we actually indeed lend deeper to understand why they are being canceled. And the majority of project sites policy, changes in policy, as in something was expected, later withdrawn, changed, rules have been modified and also the time it takes to get clarity. I mean, these projects are extremely time and resource consuming and companies hold onto ideas for a certain period of time. Then they need to know, they need to take a rational decision. Am I moving this project forward or not?
[00:14:12.23] We also know that some projects have been canceled simply as part of let's call it, the clean up of an investment portfolio. Many companies go in with a number of ideas, and those ideas shape to be viable or not, again, depending on the realities of the market. So when we see cancellations, it's because those are projects whose design did not really align with the new or updated policy situation. Those where the wait was simply too long. Or those where companies put a number of bets and then ultimately chose only some of them.
[00:14:47.56] EMMA KERR: And a follow up question on that. So from that perspective, that's a lot of what these project partners can do in order to make their projects realize. But then on the other side, what are recommendations that you have for policy, for larger societal structures to make sure that these projects can succeed and have the timeline that works for their ultimate deployment?
[00:15:09.64] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So what we are looking for in hydrogen, and perhaps let us tackle the big picture first is really that snowball that we've seen in wind, solar, and batteries. How did it all start? It started with government intervention. Governments decided that these are the kinds of energy solutions they wanted to see online, they wanted to see grow. They laid out the contours of the market, usually in the form of some type of demand action, visibility, target, soft or firm incentive, subsidy. We talk about the feed in tariffs as a classic example of something that really spurred that type of movement.
[00:15:50.00] So we're looking for that demand signal from governments and working with governments. What happens then is that the industry obviously sees the opportunity, comes in, puts in the capacities, the supply. And what happens is that volume goes up, cost goes down, and we're starting to see that positive spiral, that positive cycle. And that repeats. Because as soon as we bring costs down, demand goes up and governments can happily exit. And the industry is-- and the industry is rolling.
[00:16:19.56] So I think we're looking for a similar dynamic in hydrogen right now. And that would alleviate a lot of problems. Now it is built on three assumptions. One assumption is around clarity, practicality, and predictability of policy. I think that's absolutely paramount. Then the second one is clarity on standards. What do we mean when we say clean hydrogen? What do we mean when we say low carbon hydrogen? What are the standards? How do we measure? How do we calculate what we really mean by these definitions?
[00:16:55.76] And then thirdly, it's infrastructure, the ability to connect physically between projects. You may have the most wonderful idea in the world, but if you cannot bring your hydrogen to where it's needed and when it's needed, it will probably not move forward.
[00:17:11.24] KAREN: And having this global perspective, where are you seeing the most momentum for hydrogen projects today, and what can we learn from that region, whether it's in Europe, US or Asia or anywhere else?
[00:17:22.00] IVANA JEMELKOVA: Let me give you the breakdown, because we looked at the 110 in terms of geographies as well. And it will not surprise you that China is leading the pack. China has emerged as the leader in hydrogen, and of the 110, 33 billion are linked to projects in China. And China not only leads in terms of total committed investment, but also when it comes to renewable hydrogen production, the investment level has been just impressive.
[00:17:55.89] Now second is North America. That would include the US and Canada, second place with some $23 billion in committed capital and leadership on low carbon production. That's quite interesting when you look at the breakdown of renewable versus low carbon pathways. The split is split is extremely clear. Europe is third. I don't know if that's a good news or bad news. Things have been slow, but some pick up in the last 12 months because we are indeed starting to see that regulatory clarity come or emerge.
[00:18:29.13] But Europe has a huge opportunity that is not quite leaning into just yet. And that is an opportunity and demand creation and policy supported business cases. Again, we're starting to see that early pick up. And we're very much hoping that Europe really leans into that opportunity.
[00:18:44.91] KAREN: And like a follow up question on this. Do you see-- what is pushing this traction in China? Is it like government besides funding? What are they doing right?
[00:18:53.57] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So this may be a little bit provocative, but I will start by saying that China has chosen hydrogen as a real strategic investment, not only because of its climate benefits, but perhaps even more so because of its benefits on industrial competitiveness, global competitiveness of Chinese companies, and energy security. We all know that is a huge driver in China, and the government has really put a lot of effort into making sure that the pathway is clear. The way things work in China, we know very well what to expect in the next 5, 10, 15 years. And that's certainly given businesses the time and space to do.
[00:19:41.04] At the same time, China is known-- I mean, the playbook is known from wind and solar when we had a number of domestic players compete for the best. And that's really driven up quality, driven down cost. And Chinese products are now very competitive internationally. So really, I think it's seeing hydrogen, not only, And Forgive me for using those words, not only as a climate solution, but really as a strategic competitiveness choice and a solution for energy security and energy resilience. I think those are priorities that could should resonate with other countries around the world as well.
[00:20:17.96] KAREN: Excellent. And Ivana, when you-- the breakdown you gave us on $33 billion in China, $23 billion in North America, et cetera, is that looking at where the projects are being built, where the demand is, where the headquarters of the investors are.
[00:20:32.98] IVANA JEMELKOVA: Where the projects are being built, where the projects are being built. Yeah, exactly right.
[00:20:38.02] KAREN: Great. That's very helpful. Now let's move to demand a little more because as I alluded to, the hydrogen industry is very global market. And often the hydrogen is produced in a region with a lot of renewables and a lot of gas and then transport to other areas that need the hydrogen. We're looking at all the projects that have reached FID. Where do you see the strongest offtake, I guess growth, and maybe thinking about it from the two different buckets, one, the current hydrogen industry? So industries that are using hydrogen already, but are looking to decarbonize versus the second bucket more the kind of new hydrogen industries?
[00:21:20.58] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So it's really policy driven. And right now the good news is that we have all the policies in place that we need to get to a meaningful amount of demand by 2030. We do not need any new big budgets. We do not need any new big sort of sweeping, game-changing regulation. Really what it is about now is implementation.
[00:21:44.00] And I'm really talking about key policies in places like Japan and Korea, the contracts for difference scheme. I'm talking about the renewable energy directive in Europe. I'm talking about tax credits in the US. If they come through, as in if governments efficiently and effectively implement them, we will be able to unleash some 8 million ton per annum of policy supported business cases for hydrogen.
[00:22:11.20] That is roughly what we have lined up in terms of supply. So we could get the hydrogen snowball really going. All we need is simply to follow through on we have already started. And I think that's the good news. We do not need to invent anything new. We just need to follow through. Now the realities of the world are such that even that is a challenge. The realities have very much changed, whether it's geopolitics, it's security.
[00:22:38.11] I mean, there are so many new competing drivers, priorities. So as we discussed earlier, businesses need that space and time to get things up, to do their part. So what I would really say here, and that's been our recommendation throughout the report, we really need focus. We need pragmatism. We need to be very practical in the next phase. It's not about big new ideas. It's about rolling up our sleeves and getting the work done.
[00:23:03.77] KAREN: Absolutely. And so that 8 million tons a year, what use cases is that going to primarily? I guess you talked about the contracts for difference in Asia. So one is certainly power, co-firing coal-fired power plants. What are the other larger buckets?
[00:23:20.97] IVANA JEMELKOVA: Perfect, Karen, as if you have read our report. So if you look at it, I mean, it's a natural consequence of what these policies are driving. So in Europe it will be refining. It is ammonia production in Asia, indeed, coal power or co-firing. 70% of the use cases are in existing hydrogen use areas.
[00:23:46.89] Now again, the principles, the contours are emerging of the new use cases as well. We are seeing lots of really interesting movement when it comes to steel. We're seeing movement in shipping, in aviation. We are seeing renewed interest in mobility, especially trucking, which I think is shaping to be one of those areas to watch.
[00:24:10.19] KAREN: Outstanding to hear. I wanted to go back on a point you mentioned earlier about how the Hydrogen Council really focuses on standardizing policy and policy language, because I think when you're working across so many different geographies, so many different projects, that's really, really valuable, as you said, to have this focused and common mission. So in the role of the Hydrogen Council, can you speak a little bit more about how you're focused on making this collective action of policy and what has been your approaches in advancing it globally across these different directives. And in order to alleviate some of this uncertainties that may come with the changing tides of different leadership or different motivations.
[00:24:57.69] IVANA JEMELKOVA: Let me tackle the standardization item first, because that is so important. That notion of can we align on a common language so that we can define, measure, verify, certify and value the clean properties of our molecules. We don't get lost in translation. We do not get lost in technical rules. What qualifies as RFNB? Right now, we're spending a lot of time helping project developers from third countries to figure out how they can get their clean molecules to Europe. That's something that Europe very much needs. It's part of its strategy.
[00:25:36.66] But for the last three years, we have been blocked by simply lack of technical clarity. So we are working on the technical guidelines to really explain what qualifies, how it qualifies, because that is a key missing piece for developers to understand whether they have viable projects and whether they can move forward. So this notion of standardization, a common language, and if not common language, then at least common calculators. That could be really game changing.
[00:26:04.72] And that is so important. And we have spent quite a bit of time working with the ISO and other key players in this space to at least try to bring us all on the same page when it comes to the terminology. You will notice, for example, that the Council never refers to hydrogen pathways with the various colors. We do not use the color scheme. We understand that at some point it was helpful to stakeholders to explain quickly what they mean. However, I think we've gone past that. And really the key focus is on what's your contribution to decarbonization, and can we express it in such a way that we all around the world understand that we have some common metrics.
[00:26:48.32] KAREN: And then stepping aside from the policy side, how do you see the role of private capital playing into the growth of the hydrogen economy? And like, what does it take for investors to have confidence in investing in large scale hydrogen projects?
[00:27:03.60] IVANA JEMELKOVA: So look, I think there are a couple of items here, including findings from our reports. If I were an investor today, what would I be most interested in or interested to see in hydrogen? Number one, I would like to see the trajectory. For me, the trajectory is important. And if I see trajectory, I start to think about patterns that were true for solar and wind. And I start seeing the patterns. I start seeing the path to the liftoff moment.
[00:27:33.97] I would also be looking at the maturation of the project pipeline we talked about earlier. Strong projects are moving forward. Some projects are not moving forward. That's absolutely normal. In fact, when I shared this point with some the reaction I get is that's actually great because the industry will emerge healthier. It will emerge stronger out of this cleanup and perhaps more focused.
[00:27:57.93] And the last item, the last, I'd say piece of information I would want to have as a decision maker is really that emerging policy clarity. So what are the rules? How can I design my project in such a way that it may benefit from tax credits. It may align well with the red three targets, or that it really is a good fit for the contracts for difference in Japan. So starting to see all of that come together, seeing the maturation, seeing the trajectory, seeing that emerging policy clarity, suddenly I feel like I have something really tangible I can work with. And again, I start recognizing patterns from other scale up industries.
[00:28:41.67] KAREN: Ivana, we're here today, 2025, the [INAUDIBLE] purchase came out. So we have 511 projects, $110 billion committed, five years of steady growth. Fast forward 10 years from now, we're having the same podcast conversation. You're still spearheading the Hydrogen Council. Of course, now we have 15 years of steady growth. What else is happening? What is the state of the hydrogen industry? What is exciting you and what are some of the challenges 10 years from now?
[00:29:14.07] IVANA JEMELKOVA: I always find it funny to realize that, the 2030, 2040, 2050 milestones that mid-century, the goals that we have designed, we'll probably get to see those years if everything goes well. So if we reconvene in 2030, 2040, 2050, I really hope that we'll continue seeing that steady progress. Look, it may not be perfect. It may not even look like what we envisaged back in 2015 in Paris. But I hope that we'll continue seeing that forward movement, that progress, that we will have something to celebrate because it's important and it's urgent and we need to get it done.
[00:29:54.57] KAREN: Absolutely. And I fully agree with you, Ivana. One of the things that I think is really exciting about the industry we're in, and the challenge that we're trying to work towards is that 2050 is kind of 25 years away. It's very much in the span of our careers, and we won't be able to get to net zero by then, but we can do whatever we can to get as close as possible.
[00:30:20.18] IVANA JEMELKOVA: My kids will be in their mid 20s and seconds recording podcasts and thinking, oh Mommy. I hope they will look kindly at me.
[00:30:33.10] KAREN: Oh, I'm sure they'll be so proud of you. This has already been a wonderful conversation, so we'll have to send our podcast invite to you for 10 years from now in order to have a follow up conversation.
[00:30:43.68] IVANA JEMELKOVA: It's a deal. That's a deal. We have a deal. Wonderful.
[00:30:47.24] KAREN: Ivana, as I mentioned in the introduction, you've been such a leader and inspiration also when it comes to community building within women in hydrogen. I've been at many conferences get togethers that were happening thanks to you where I always left the room inspired seeing other incredible female leaders in this space. Tell us a bit more about what has driven you to lead some of these efforts and what you have taken away from some of these gatherings.
[00:31:18.52] IVANA JEMELKOVA: Exactly as you say, Karen. just be with women who are extremely capable, extremely motivated, extremely energizing to spend time with. And some of my favorite learnings really come from the women in hydrogen experiences. I will never forget one of the formidable ladies at COP29, in Dubai. She said something that really stayed with me, and I think it really shapes what I do and how I do it.
[00:31:44.14] And she said the energy transition will move at the speed of trust. And I think it's just so profound and just so brilliant because it requires us to bring all of the different pieces, all of the different players together and somehow make it all work in sync. We need to trust each other that we all do our part, that we move towards the KPIs we have established, and that we stay focused even if it gets hard. And that's perhaps another quote, a more fun one on the lighter side,
[00:32:20.90] I was once in an event where we again got into this famous chicken and egg dilemma. And at some point, we just got so tired of it. And one of the ladies stood up and she said, I'm done with this chicken and egg. It's really all about synchronized swimming. And everybody sort of paused and said, what. synchronized swimming, what do you need? And what do you mean?
[00:32:41.84] And she said, oh you know what, we just need to put on the suits and jump into the pool all at once. And then we need to make it work. We need to start making those movements in sync and then it will look like a beautiful dance. But we need to take that decision to just put on the suits and jump into the pool. And I just loved it. And I thought it was just such a fun take on the chicken and egg dilemma. From there on, I've never once referred to any chickens or any eggs. It's all about jumping into that pool
[00:33:12.51] KAREN: Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing these learnings, Ivana. But the trust as well as the synchronized swimming will definitely stay with me.
[00:33:22.87] MILANIA ROJAS: I also 100% agree. I think a lot of the times we let perfectionism get in the way of just good enough and progress. Sometimes it just-- you have to bite the bullet. And it's kind of a question more for myself and other young professionals that are listening out there. You have come a very long way. But I wanted to ask, if you could go back in time when you were first starting your career, what advice would you give yourself?
[00:33:53.43] IVANA JEMELKOVA: That's a very tall order. And it's such a good question because things are changing so rapidly. And I'm thinking again, geopolitics, AI, you name it. The job that the generation after us will have will look probably nothing like our job, so I do not feel that I can give advice. But what's always worked as long as humans are involved is building partnerships, listening to each other, building that trust that we just talked about and really building something together.
[00:34:25.83] I'll tell you one thing. I am a mom of two young children and they are children, so they fight a lot. When they don't fight, when they build something together. So I take that as a lesson for our industry as well. If we have something productive to do, if we work hard, if we focus on achieving the same goal, everything will be all right.
[00:34:47.65] KAREN: Ivana, I would like to end with one question that we ask every guest in our podcast. You've been such an inspiration for me, and I know many, many other leaders, female and male all over the world in this industry and far beyond that. We like to believe that all of us stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us. And using Isaac Newton's words, it's standing on their shoulders is what makes us see further. In that context, who inspires you. Who inspires you most and why?
[00:35:17.98] IVANA JEMELKOVA: I might break some rules here because I'll again go to my kids, as opposed to the big historic figures. I mean, the wonder, the curiosity, that thirst for learning and the discovery of the world is something that inspires me. And that's also why I do what I do. It's for them. It's for the next generation. We simply need to make the transition work.
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